Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: Without further ado, let me introduce you to Natalie Greff, Santa Maria. Natalie Gref has been involved in the language industry for many years. Today I could list what we can see on LinkedIn. She's been a Kudo, she's been at Aati in Argentina and she's been working more recently as the head of language services at the Olympic Games.
We love Natalie to introduce herself and to tell us more about her before.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: Hi Ed, how are you?
[00:00:47] Speaker A: Hello. I am doing great. Thank you so much for joining us today for being here.
Oh, absolutely. It's a pleasure. And as you see, we have people from all around the world that are connected through different channels. And we were mentioning to everyone that this is a really great opportunity to get to know about you, to get to know about your career and all the advice that you can give us. For those that just joined us, I just want to remind you that we are going to be hearing from Natalie about building a career in the global language industry. We'll explore the dynamic career pathways available in the global language industry. She will share her experiences and provide guidance on navigating career opportunities from entry level position to leadership roles. I'm very excited to hear about your experiences, Natalie. So thank you so much for doing this.
[00:01:48] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you, Elie. And I'm very grateful for, for, well, this invitation. So let me start with the good morning or good afternoon, good evening of course, maybe depending on where you are. And I've been watching the chat as well and following all these different places you're connecting from. So it's a pleasure to be here. And as Eddie said, my name is Nathalie Greif Santa Maria. I am a literary translator, conference interpreter and project manager. And it's an absolute privilege to open this, well, much anticipated, at least for me and much needed today event alongside Eddie and Camille as well. Over the next few days, we'll all explore not only how to refine our professional skills, but also how to prioritize self care, for example, a crucial yet often overlooked part of our careers.
But before diving in, I'd like to take a moment to really thank you again, Eddie and Camila, for trusting me with this keynote.
I will share my experience, of course, but it's mostly about you and maybe what you can extract from this experience to support you in your career or maybe if you want to change and, I don't know, move from translating to interpreting or the other way around or any other linguist careers that you would like to dive into, I'd be happy to at least share my experience in hopes that it can help you.
I'm personally eager to learn from all the different experts that we will listen to over these two days. And by the way, Eddie, I was the head of Paris 2024 Language Services as my role ended in September 30th because, well, the games reached an end. So I am now back freelancing and trying to apply everything that I'm going to go over for the next hour. And it was actually great to prepare this presentation to make sure that. Well, to refresh my memories about what I've been doing and what worked and what didn't. So I can also apply it now that I am in a new market in France because before that I was in Argentina.
Now, as we dive into today's first topic, building a career in the global language industry, I want to start with a thought and this is it. If you're here today. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you for the presentation. You know when you're an interpreter or a translator and you see many, many presentations in your life and you're like, how can they forget to actually share a slide? Well, this is how it happens. I'm very glad I shared it beforehand. So thank you for whoever is sharing the presentation now. So, one thought. If you're here today, it's likely because this field isn't just a job for you, it's also a calling. At least it's the case for me. Languages have always been a powerful force in my life, and it took me years to figure out where I fit within this vast and dynamic industry. But whatever the challenges, doubts, and there are many successes and plenty of learning moments, what remained constant was my passion for connecting with others through language.
When I began my journey, I didn't start learning foreign languages until my twenties.
For many of you, the past may have looked different. You may have learned languages at home, but no matter how you arrived here, I hope that sharing my experiences will spark meaningful conversation during the Q and A or the rest of the event. And why not beyond the event? And we will be able to connect together. We can exchange ideas and learn from one another. After all, our field thrives on collaboration. It's a profession rooted in communication.
As a French native, as you can here, who became an adopted Argentinian by choice. And hello to all the Argentinian colleague I've seen, and from France as well. My journey has been shaped by two cultures.
These influences show up in unexpected ways, like my storytelling style. And this is very interesting as well. When we are linguists, to see how culture tell their story or a fact. In Argentina, at least from my opinion, of course. And we can always debate. Stories are often winding, beginning with the dive into history or context.
Like sometime sometimes I can start from the Inca antiquity to get back to my point. While I will let you know when to switch slides if you want. I don't know if it's you, Camila, but I will definitely let you know. Promise. Thank you for trying to find out.
So in Argentina it's all like twisting and turning, style convolating ways.
And in France, they like to get straight to the point before adding context.
And I remember I first arrived in Argentina, I found this style perplexing. And I was often interrupting my speakers with the end, like, what's the point of your story? But in time I embraced it.
And so if at some point you're wondering, where is she going with this? Don't worry, stick with me and we'll get there. And if I'm unclear if my English is not clear, especially because today I feel totally under the weather and I may have to pause to cough or sneeze. So this meeting that we have right now can only get better and improve next time that we will meet. And I hope it's going to be the case because I will be in better health, I hope. Well, if I'm unclear, please don't hesitate to ask and I will repeat or clarify. So with that, let's begin by exploring what we see on the slide right now, meaning three guiding questions for today's talk. Why become a linguist? How do you pursue your path? And how do you keep growing once you're in it?
So the next slide is actually a quote I like very much from Mandela and that stick with me, I think the first time I heard it, and it's now on my LinkedIn as well, profile, is that if you talk to a man in a language he understands, that goes to his head, but if you talk to him in his language, that goes to his her heart. And this is how we can really reach people. And not only the language, I would say, but also the variety, the localization of the language that is so important. I can definitely see it with French and Spanish and of course English as well, but in a lesser extent, because I don't manage English as well as French and Spanish. But we need people that actually speak our variant of the language.
And on the next slide, I added something from Argentina that I love so much and that was part of my whole education in France. It's comic from Kino an Argentinian comic.
That explains why Mafalda wants to become an interpreter. And she wanted to. On that slide, she's saying that she wants to become an interpreter to help people to understand each other. And it's a. It's a. It's a valuable reason to actually become a linguist or a translator or an interpreter.
And what I think is that every career actually begins with a story and finding your personal funding story. The spark that drew you to this field isn't just about reflection. It can become a powerful drive, motivator when challenges arise. For me, it all began with my great grandmother. I was around five or six years old, I think, and she spoke only pois vin saintanger, which is a regional language influenced by French, Spanish, and English over centuries.
And I was mesmerized by this process of my grandfather actually interpreting her words into French for me or my cousins, because whenever my great grandmother was speaking, I was not able to understand her.
And even at that young age, I wanted to be part of this. I was also very curious to understand, to understand and convey meaning across linguistic boundaries. So that childhood curiosity never left me, really. In fact, I also began to.
I also began recreating those moments during games with my younger sister, pretending to be her interpret of an imaginary language. And looking back, it's clear that those experiences planted the seeds for what would later become my career as a translator and interpreter. Now, your foundational or foundation funding story might look completely differently. At least I hope so.
And perhaps it's tied to a multilingual family, a moment of cultural discovery, or even an event in your life that undiscovered the power of communication beyond languages. But whatever it is, I encourage you to reflect on it and hold on to it, especially when you want to build a career, extend beyond what you really know. And it's.
At least it works. It works. I mean, it works in prison for me, because it's like a compass when challenges arise and when you're questioning your place in the industry, et cetera, et cetera.
At its core, the language industry is about connection. It's about helping people understand each other, making sure that they get the right message in their right language, whether it's through translation, interpretation, localization, that I'm not that familiar with, because I have never studied or practiced or worked in the localization industry. But any linguistic skill, basically, is to me, related to communication.
And that's also what makes our work so fulfilling, I think. Now, enough with the why. Let's go to the next slide and focus on the how right?
And building a career in the global language industry isn't something that happens overnight.
Like any profession, it's a journey that requires patience, practice and persistence. And this is actually a poem that you can see on the right from a French poet, Nicolas Boileau. That road has done slowly and without losing courage. Courage, sorry, 20 times on the loom. Put back your work, polish it again and again, sometimes add, often erase. And I think that those lines perfectly captures what it takes to master the art of translation and interpretation.
And I wish I had knew that before because somehow I thought that, okay, I'm gonna study translation and interpretation and then Tana, I'll be a translator, I'll be an interpreter, I'll be a manager once, in fact, you're just learning and learning all the time. And it's a never ending process.
So in the next slide and during this part, I will go over education, specializing in what you love and finding your niche. That I think is what will really make you different in the market. So for most of us nowadays, it was not necessarily the case before, but today the journey starts most of the time with education. My own path was somewhat unconventional, but I think not less than many of us, I think.
I began studying literature at La Sorbonne University in Paris, driven by a deep love for poetry and languages.
And my first year was spent researching French writer Theophile Gauthier and Spanish art because I was already drawn by the Spanish language and I dreamed of traveling to Spain and immersing myself in its culture.
My second year took me to at the university, took me to as a master in the master degree, I meant, I mean the took me to the works of Jorge Luis Borges, an Argentinian writer and poet.
And mostly because by that time I was living in Spain and I fall in love with the Argentinian accent and culture and I really wanted to speak that way. So I started researching the literature and decided to study Jorge Luis Borges. And at that time it was a good way to also justify why I needed to go to Argentina during my my university studies.
I had no idea where this would lead me, really. I simply followed my interests and these feelings I had about what I wanted to listen, hear, speak, etc. Etc.
And sometimes I think all it takes is a small nudge and from someone else to set you on the way you were looking for.
And for that you just need to be consistent and keep trying until the nudge comes. For me, it came during my master's defense. My research director asked me a question I never forget.
He said, have you ever thought about becoming a translator?
That is a double age sentence. Like at the same time I was thinking, okay, so I'm definitely not going to go for a thesis. I'm not shaped for university research. But at the same time, it was somehow an encouragement. And it became a turning point in my career because I had never thought about becoming a translator.
I learned a second language so late that I wasn't sure I would even be able to translate. So I gave it a thought and started trying to translate as a volunteer first. And a few years later, I realized that I could combine my love for languages with another passion, which is interpretation.
It's a bit fast forward right now, but let's say that I started volunteering, studying, working for agencies as a translator.
It worked, and I will explain a little bit later on that. And then I realized that I could also become an interpreter, which was another dream I had.
So I returned to school to learn the techniques that would allow me to bridge cultural and linguistic gaps in real time, either by simultaneous or consecutive interpreting. The beautiful thing about our professions, I think, is that it allows us to bring all our interests to the table. For example, I once attended a literary event in the Malba Museum in Buenos Aires, featuring a French author called Jean Hnose.
And before the interview, we were queuing in the museum's hallway and I vaguely remember the silhouette, a person that walked past us in line to still to a still closed door.
This person's words resonated with me. She said, good evening, I am the interpreter for the French author who is going to speak now. Mary, come in. And the attendant opened the door for her and guided her to the interpreting booth, invisible to the public.
And as an about to graduate interpreter at that time, the first thing I felt when I heard those words was a lot of admiration and longing that never ceased to grow over the years for this incredible profession. And in this instance, my passions of interpretation and literature, combined with the stunning setting, the Malba Museum. I remember wondering if I'd ever be in her shoes. Well, fast forward six years, and by a combination of coincidences that have never ceased to amaze me, I found myself interpreting for the same author who was back in Argentina not once, but twice. And the second time was in the Borges Room at the National Library in Buenos Aires. So for me it meant, of course, a lot. And these moments reinforced what I had always known, that this is what I was meant to do, and I really wanted to do it. And those moments are important. I could also mention the first time A book was published with a translation I did.
I remember especially the one from Spanish into French, a poetry book from an Argentinian poet, Diana Bellisi, who made me this poet. She made me listen to the music of Spanish as I was able to heard it before understanding the words. You know, when you first listen to a language or a specific accent and you fell in love with the music of the language, but then you start learning it, speaking it, and then the meaning of the language prevents you to listen again to the music as it was before. Well, poetry, and especially this poet gave me this, gave me back this music. And I really wanted to translate it. And it was definitely a milestone that I used to keep forward when in doubt now regarding the idea of finding your niche.
The languages industry is incredibly diverse, right?
And I think it's a great strength from legal translation to literary interpretation. There is a lot of niches, there are a lot of interests for all of us, and there are things that I would never be able to translate or interpret. So I think it's important to focus on what you like, what your interests are, and also reminding open. Because over time I found myself drawn to specializations that I never imagined, including psychotherapy, cyber security, and even baking.
Well, I'm French, but I didn't bake at that time. Now I do. Okay. One of the most defining moments in my career came when I interpreting for a head of state for the first time. It was both humbling and exhilarating and, you know, scary at the same time.
That experience taught me a very important lesson.
It is okay to dream big, because my biggest dream at that time was actually to interpret a president. And I was around 30 years old and I was like, what am I going to dream about now? And that was a beautiful moment. And I wish you all to get to this moment when your higher dream is actually fulfilled and you have to create new ones.
The same principle applies to another unexpected opportunity. Sports.
In 2018, I served as a conference interpreter for the Buenos Aires Youth Olympic Games.
And that experience inspired me to set my sights on Paris 2024. I remember, actually I do remember this moment when Paris was the selected at the hosted city. I remember saying, there is no way this event can happen without me in it somehow. And it's funny because I'm not sure I planned on getting there, but clearly everything I made because it was in 2017 and then in 2018, I was part of the Buenos Aires Youth Olympic Games. So whenever you want something, keep making sure that it's present somehow in your head. Because all your decisions will go toward this goal and where.
So during the Paris 2024 Olympic and Paralympic Games, I coordinated interpretation services.
And it was such a global event that it was both challenging and rewarding at the same time. And I learned so many things about our profession that I didn't know how to plan. Unexpected languages, for instance, when you don't know which athlete is going to win.
So there are so many things to learn all the time that it's really worth trying.
And I also, it was great because I, I was also, at that time, in 2018, I was already practicing sports a lot because sports changed my life, my health, my mental health as well. And I was able to confirm that it has a lot in common with the interpretation, I use this metaphor of the bicycle. I'm sure you've heard already when you learn interpretation or even translation, you go out.
I mean, what the schools teach you is to actually ride without the little wheels.
But then you have to practice and practice and practice and practice and train and train and train to be good and become an athlete and a great professional. So even though I do not practice bicycle at all, it was a good way for me to watch athletes and realize that it's actually the same training.
To be professional, we need to practice. In other words, I think the best strategy I know is to explore your interests. So what interests you is a great question. And follow your curiosity.
It will guide you to your ideal focus and then experiment. Don't be afraid to try new areas that you find, feel you're interested in. But you, you, you haven't studied because this is what we do as translators, as interpreters, we are generalists, right? We can learn quickly.
And every project teaches you something like valuable, even if it's outside our comfort zone.
And invest in skill building.
Once you identify your niche, seek out opportunities to refine your expertise.
It's truly important.
Certifications, workshops that give you knowledge.
And I remember interpreting for literature or movie industry and I was like, gosh, I'm going to be paid for this job that I would definitely go and volunteer for. And this is also something that whenever I think that I'm like, okay, so this is the good place for me. This is what I want to do. Okay, let's, let's go to the last part about how to keep growing.
And on this slide, on this part I would like to talk about building your reputation, embracing technology, and a bit about self care as well.
So these three parts are on the next slide that we can see almost now a career thank you. A career in the language industry doesn't. And once you've found your niche, or once you finish your study, it's a constant process of growth, adaptation and learning, continuing education, deliberate practice, volunteering and networking, or vital to staying relevant, refreshing your skills and thriving in this ever evolving industry.
When I graduated from my interpreting program, I found myself navigating the Argentinian market with little to no compass. I had no formal training in marketing, project management or team leadership. But my curiosity and determination drove me to learn on the job, meet mentors, which is really important.
People that inspire you will also show you how to do things and take additional courses. So in 2008 I started a small translation company, vice versa, which became a platform for my work and to be able to invoice basically as a translator, project manager and interpreter.
This step taught me invaluable lessons about entrepreneurship and client relations.
Luckily, our associations and colleagues helped us improve by offering a lot of workshops, short courses and trainings, be it in translation or interpretation. In 2018, I participated in the CCIC course, an advanced interpreting training in Cambridge that helped me better understand where I stand as a professional interpreter and where where I wanted to focus my energy.
It is organized by Chris de Fortis and Julia Podger and it is important because at that time, just an example in my market. At that time I wasn't in touch with the staff interpreters or translators.
I knew that there were staff interpreters and translators, but I only had a vague idea of what it was and I wasn't sure if it was something I wanted to become or not. And this is one of the many things I took from this course.
In the language industry, our reputation is an asset.
Clients and colleagues will contact us based on our reliability, professionalism and skill.
Building a strong reputation takes time, consistency and professionalism.
Delivering quality work, meeting deadlines and engaging positively with clients and colleagues are all critical.
However, repetition isn't always within our complete control and sometimes it can be challenged by misunderstanding or whatever. And these moments can be disheartening and can prevent us from moving forward because of fear, because we don't know, we don't want to.
When faced with such challenges, it's also essential to focus on what we can control and the quality of what we do, our integrity and just be consistent and professional.
And whenever we have a chance, talk about what we've been doing. So remember, no single project or situation defines our career and we we just need to relate, communicate, network. This is why it's also so important. And we will mention it.
But once we found when once you found your footing, the journey doesn't stop either. In fact, sustaining and growing our career is an ongoing process that I would have liked to know before diving into it. In order to stay relevant, we need to adapt. And for that, of course, many of us, or at least I would like to see the world kind of stop evolving so much so fast. In terms of technology, we are sometimes forced to learn things we were not interested in, or not convinced it will be for better quality or working conditions.
But I still remember when I discovered CAT tools for the first time because I started translating without them and I had this feeling that I had been working in the stone Age when I discovered them.
So in early 2018, when my clients began asking for remote solutions for interpretation, I was a bit more open about the idea.
And it was long before they became the norm because of the pandemic. And around that time I attended a workshop by Mahael Metwali who introduced me to cutting edge tools and among them RSI and the different existing platforms.
And the following year I remember an international conference I supported as a conference interpreter and two participants were talking during coffee break and wondering why they had interpretation during this yearly conference, but never in between. And they were not able to communicate and keep working on what they've agreed.
And this is why I found RSI interesting to meet my client needs.
And I decided to embrace this technology to be. To work to make sure that it works for us as linguists as well as interpreters, not against us. And I also remember the famous quote from Bill Wood in 2011 saying that interpreters will not be replaced by technology, they will be replaced by interpreters who use technology.
And this I'm gonna be a little go a little bit faster on what I'm sharing with you because I really want us to have time for Q and A and it's already taking too long. So I'm gonna just jump into AI and if you have any question about rsi, you can ask me later. But I think that so far AI isn't really ready, sorry to substitute us. Substitute us. And so far technology never succeeded in substituting us.
Speaking human, as Lang Talent said, is something that only us can do. And there is a lot of questions that and I'm really looking forward to the next speakers and topics that will cover this question. But there are tons of questions about responsibility and variety of languages and language combination privacy that humans are able to address better than technology.
I'm sorry for the pause. I'm just trying to Find what I can share quickly in the last minutes I want to spend on this, but I'm going to jump into networking. I think I mentioned it a little bit earlier and how important.
Networking is a way for us to learn from others.
And the importance of community in our field of expertise cannot be overstated.
In 2020, I joined the executive committee of Americ's Deliberate Practice Group for Interpreters.
We organized monthly practice sessions with six amazing conference interpreters for any colleagues out there.
And it was really a rewarding experience, but also a reminder of the power of collaboration and also constructive criticism, which is a gift that allow us to improve as professional.
And if you're an interpreter here and you have never heard of Amerivox, I think it's time to look it up.
By the way, it's not the only practice group, but I'm biased and I'm saying it out loud here. So you can also research for other groups because there are a lot of them.
I'd be interested to know from the translators in this room if there are other.
If there are practice groups for translators as well.
In 2023, when I arrived in Paris, I also started with two other colleagues quarterly, every three months, meeting on site, meeting to un virtualized with turn un virtualized. I'm not sure I can say that, but you know, to meet people for real instead of being so remote all the time. And relationships often lead to opportunities as well.
So the idea was actually given to us by a one time event created by Ike. The professional and professional associations, like Ike, to name but one, have also played a vital role in shaping my career. They provide opportunities to connect with peers, learn from industry leaders, defend our rights and advocate for our profession. Professional associations are crucial in shaping the future of our industry. And it is a way for any of us to add our stone to this future.
And when I started working as a team leader, when I started managing team and which was an incredible experience, like really knowing what teamwork is, I felt this responsibility as well. Whenever you start working in a leadership position, when you have a team, when you organize language services, you must be aware of the policies that you're implementing, applying, and why you're applying them. Because you can shape the industry and your choice, your decisions will have an impact on freelancers, on the profession in itself.
So I will finish with a quick just before the conclusion, but we can stay on this slide.
In 2019, I had the privilege of interpreting a talk by Lumila Golovin, which will be part of the next panel on Vicarious trauma. And it gave me the tools to better understand the specific situation I experience and make sure that it doesn't repeat itself. So attending workshop is also a way to take care of yourself or of your health in so many ways that I can't stop saying how important it is. Okay. As a conclusion, I am quoting Confucius, but we are not sure that it's. It's attributed to him. Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life.
So with those words, I think we can close this presentation. I don't know, Eddie, if you want to come back for the Q and A, but I would love to hear from you, from the. From the audience, if you have any question.
Thank you.
[00:47:16] Speaker A: Hello, Natalie. Thank you so much for your presentation. I mean, both of us, Mila, Natalie and I. Both of us.
No. There we go.
So thank you, Natalie, once again for your presentation. Your experiences are really valuable to us, and we're really happy to have you as our. A first keynote for the beginning of this conversation today, which will end tomorrow. To remind everyone, the next session is going to be our panel on essential skills for language professionals in 2025 with Melanie Francis, Mila Golovine, and Max Troyer.
And of course, we still have Natalie with us. If you have any questions for Natalie, please make sure also. Your appreciation is well received. Thank you. That's all. For you and Natalie. It's like claps. There's digital claps.
[00:48:15] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:48:16] Speaker A: To be able to open the microphone, but I thought it was a really wholesome moment when you started sharing the path that you are going through right now in terms of the projects that you're looking for, and that's really empowering. So I have to agree with. With the approach to your presentation. Definitely very insightful, and there are lots of principles there to follow. So we've already. We've already talked a little bit about this, but Gracie Engelhardt has a question. She's saying how difficult was doing interpretation at the Olympics?
[00:48:54] Speaker B: It was terribly difficult because I was not able to interpret at all.
I was only making sure that everyone was able to interpret in proper condition in the best condition possible, given the difficulty of this event.
Not only because I didn't have time to really prepare and interpret, but also because it was not my language combination, because English was our pivot language and English is my C language as an interpreter. But to go a little bit further and answer your question, for interpreters, what is really difficult is that, you know, some sports, like football, you know from day minus one to day zero who are the teams and then and therefore who are the languages. But for for sports like race or bicycles or you need to cross the finish line to actually know what languages will be needed.
And after that you have a window or 20, 40 minutes to go to the booth and start interpreting for the press conference. So it's a very short time and everyone has to prepare just in case.
And then just one more thing. The press conferences are very short and usually I need a five minute warm up before getting into the mood and really being good as interpreting. But when you have 15 minutes it's already a third of it. So you have to be good on the spot. And so that would be my answer.
[00:50:52] Speaker A: Thank you Natalie, for your answer. We have another one from Richard Powell says what advice would you give those of us just entering the profession, coming from another and not knowing where to start? Personally, I'm a translator, but I'm sure it applies for interpreters as well and other people. I came from tech and I'm mostly in sales and marketing so I came into the industry from and I'm not even a translator. But this question is for you.
[00:51:17] Speaker B: It's a great question as well. Thank you Richard and thank you Gracie as well for your question.
I would say let's say that let's focus on translating. I would say find an article that you like and translate it. Translate it, see how long you need to translate it, see how challenging it is and offer it to, for reading to a native friend, native in this language so he or she can help you and let you know how good it is, etc. Etc. And then start volunteering. It's for interpreters. It's a good thing as well.
But start training yourself by testing, making sure that you like doing that, offering to volunteer in different situations and then go and study certificates, certification studies is really, really important.
But I hope I'll answer your question.
[00:52:32] Speaker A: I think you did. And just to make sure we answer everyone's questions, Sol Brienza and I want to thank our panelists who are ready to begin our next conversation. So hang around. Sol Brienza mentions what were the top challenges you encounter when managing interpreters at the Olympics?
[00:53:03] Speaker B: I think it's, it's not only I think it's making sure the way I see my role most of the time I'm describing, describing it as a conductor, conductor of an orchestra. And I think it's not only interpreters. Interpreters are a major part of what language services do, but it's the interpreters the technology, the setup, remote on site, the team that is supporting all everyone, the interpreters and the technology.
It's just making sure that all those different pieces are working together.
I don't know if it's the top challenges, but it's. It's definitely my main focus. And sometimes the challenge, I would say, is when something outside your.
Outside your services is not working and impacting your services, and you didn't think about that. So you have to learn very fast someone else's specialty and understand why it's not working.
So main challenges in a nutshell would come from outside what was scheduled and planned and organized. And it's always a good lesson to keep thinking ahead and beyond outside the box.
Whatever can happen.
[00:54:45] Speaker A: Yeah. And that was. That was part of what you mentioned, right? When you say keeping your goals in mind just despite of whatever you. You have, and then kind of like dreaming, dreaming really big keeps your scope open. It just seems like the right thing to do. Like, why limit yourself? And that's kind of like how the stoics would put it as well. Right? Like, why would you settle for less when you know you be so much better? So thank you so much, Natalie. This has been really, really insightful. We hope to have you back again.
